Originally dated 2/2020
I have been following your line since it launched. It is inspired by your grandmother, Mother Tynnetta Muhammad.
What was the process like, especially having her as the inspiration, along with the quotes that you post from her?
Honestly, as I’ve grown, I’ve been learning about her life, when she was among us. As it so happens when life is around us, you know, we don’t really cherish the moments and really take advantage of the presence of that being.
Since her passing, I’ve been learning more about her and getting to know her through her works and through her writings. She loved to write, not just columns with the Final Call, but writing short stories and poems. All of that has been really insightful for me.
The brand is A.S.M., which are my initials. It’s really me being inspired by her. It’s taking these bits and pieces of her and trying to incorporate it into myself, and therefore, presenting it or the manifestations of it.
Ebony S. Muhammad
I remember hearing you speak during her Janazah (memorial) service. I remember your whole disposition, and I could tell that something was about to come out as a result. And I remember The Minister’s words when he said, and I’m paraphrasing, that he wanted her to be an example for all of us as it pertains to a virtuous woman, like the personification of what we should aspire to be. And that’s what I’m seeing in your brand; meaning the answer to that and the way you wrap yourself up with your scarves. I did not know that there are so many different ways to wear a scarf. It is so beautiful and regal. And that’s what I think about when I think about her.
The quotes of hers that you post; are those coming out of the writings that you’ve been reading?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
A lot of them come from her Final Call column so I’ve been reading a lot of those. I have a ton of those printed out.
Ebony S. Muhammad
I don’t know if it was her son Brother Ahmad, but one of your uncles mentioned that there were stacks of journals that she has. Ever since then I have been inquiring about them.
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
I know, it’s so much. There’s so much writing. Just to even go through, you know? So little by little… I guess it’s challenging to get it done. But it’s like, how many years traveling…
Ebony S. Muhammad
I was about to ask…
Have you gotten into some of those journals too? Or is it just her writings within the Final Call?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
I haven’t gotten so the journals. I think those are personal.
So, we’re waiting on her children.
Ebony S. Muhammad
Yes ma’am.
The 3-pleat…oh my God! That has to be one of my favorite garments, and I see that you’ve incorporated it or parts of it in your Zayanaa garment!
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
The 3-pleat has always been my favorite garment. I love it. It’s so regal, so feminine but militant. So that was my inspiration. I worked on a design for maybe two years before I actually worked on getting it released.
And actually, the first design that I made was different than this one. It had three pleats on the side of the garment. I had to make some changes and adjustments to that. You know when your ideas go and you’re just creating and creating and creating, you know…
It’s just learning in the business world of how things work.
Thank Allah I was able to manifest it after the changes that I’ve had to make.
Ebony S. Muhammad
I definitely think that’s a part of the process.
So how did you settle on the final design?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
It really wasn’t much change. I didn’t want this part to look completely solid. I wanted to put layers to it.
Ebony S. Muhammad
This is linen, correct?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
Yes.
It’s a linen blend.
Linen wrinkles very easily. You can look at linen and it wrinkles. (laughs)
Ebony S. Muhammad
I really like it. Being accustomed to the satin 3-pleat I couldn’t really imagine it in a different fabric. But with yours, it still has that structure to it. It looks very feminine, yet, militant as you said. I really admire this, and I can’t wait to see the new colors. I have shoes to match that!
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
You do? I was looking for shoes to match this one! (laughs)
Ebony S. Muhammad
Oh, and you have pockets in this garment!
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
Yes! I was like we need pockets. We see the sisters and we’re walking with all this stuff in our hands. We have our bags…
Ebony S. Muhammad
We have stuff in our fez… (laughs)
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
We need to be able to put our things in some compartment.
Ebony S. Muhammad
And it’s flattering. It really blends in like an invisible zipper. They’re like hidden pockets.
How has the response been in launching the Zayanaa garment and in general with the scarves?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
Thank you! It’s been really good. All praise is due to Allah.
I wasn’t expecting it. I’ve been in this for three years now. So I can say I was young. (laughs) I really wanted to do something that recognized my grandmother. I didn’t know what it was going to be. I needed to make something so that I could invest in this garment.
So we decided on scarves. And on top of that, at that time, I was in my journey of covering and doing the different head wraps and really trying to get on my deen. So it was just like, everything kind of just flowed. You know, they say when everything flows, it’s just meant to be. Everything kind of just flowed at that moment.
Ebony S. Muhammad
Did you feel any pressure in representing Mother Tynnetta Muhammad in such a way, like with the garments and with the scarves?
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
It’s always been a struggle for me, because I’m really just now coming into the realization of my brand and how I represent. Because at that time [in the beginning] everything was kind of just fast paced and impulsive. It wasn’t something that I thought about and planned. It just happened.
There were things that I didn’t want to do, because her name was attached… And right now, like I said earlier, I’m coming into the realization that it’s A.S.M. It’s me, but it’s me being inspired by her.
Mother Tynnetta Muhammad 
Saffiyah Muhammad
So I have to find that balance. If I lock myself too much into this, “everything has to be perfect”, then I’ll end up going crazy just trying to make sure that everything is perfect. And I probably would misrepresent her on accident, because everyone’s perspective is different. You know, it’s very subjective. And it’s very personal for everybody.
So, I have to take it for myself. It’s like the fear of what others may think.
Ebony S. Muhammad
I was going to ask, do you get that from other people that they’re kind of putting that on you? I’ll be honest, when I see you I see her. I think it’s because of how you are allowing her to spark inspiration in you. It may not be that you’re representing her brand, but it’s your representation of her.
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
I would accept it, but it’s kind of like it goes in one ear and out the other, because I can’t hold on to that. Not in the sense of I’m picking up where she left off.
I could never, I just could never compare myself to her and what she did…
Ebony S. Muhammad
The way that you are representing our culture is beautiful.
I remember when I was interviewing Brother Ishmael and he brought up the question that people outside of the Nation Of Islam were asking: “Is the Nation of Islam still relevant?” I see you as one of the answers to that question being an up-to-date, modern version of what people may have been introduced to as far as the Nation of Islam.
So you might have people who, when they think of the Nation of Islam, initially think New York in the 1960s or something like that. Like a throwback photo. And now we have social media in a way that we can represent the evolution, the growth of the Nation Of Islam.
The Zayanaa garment, to me, represents an evolution without losing its fullness of what we represent. So I want you to know that that is my personal view of you. And I appreciate you.
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
I appreciate you and everything you have done for women, for us to be able to heal as women. We need it.
Ebony S. Muhammad
All praise is due to Allah! Thank you.
With the most recent photos that you have on your Instagram and the message they send, just to be able to post something like that beats back the image that they’re trying to put out about the Nation Of Islam. All of these documentaries are coming out… We don’t have to always defend so directly. We can simply post images and people will be able to see that what mainstream media says doesn’t match.
And that’s what I was telling Brother Talib as one of the most important things that he’s doing with his photography. We don’t have to be combative. Just put the clean glass next to the dirty glass.
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
Right. Exactly.
Ebony S. Muhammad
To respond to what you were saying about the hurt and pain of women: I adopted this transitional facility for women who were coming out of prison. They were recovering prostitutes, they were in violent relationships and some of them were in prison for murdering their abuser, or their child’s abuser. And for nine months every week, I brought Mother Tynnetta Muhammad’s articles to them and we went through the articles. I gave them aspects of our MGT class. And they saw her videos and The Minister’s videos.
These are women from every race, and even though a few of them had those tear drop tattoos next to their eyes, their femininity began to come out naturally.
And the women who were recovering prostitutes, which was most of them, at the end of the nine months, one of them announced that she was getting married. She went from giving herself in exchange for money to now wanting to give herself in holy matrimony. All praises are due to Allah!
There were white women who came up to me and said, “We want to be MGT too”. This was right after the MGT class that was open to the public on that particular Saturday. And I said to them that The Minister has opened our class to the public for that moment, it could be foreshadowing something to come, but whatever I have that I can share with you I will. I said that this is your sisterhood right here (in the facility).
There was another young sister there that I noticed a change in. She had contracted HIV from her boyfriend who was also abusive to her. As a result, she was really down a lot, as you can imagine. But by the end of each class, she was full of energy and her spirit was raised.
To be able to take elements of Mother Tynnetta Muhammad and of our MGT class and of our culture, and give it to women that this world has probably forgotten about or discarded, was a tremendous blessing to witness and an experience I will never forget.
I had on a different color garment every single time, and they were trying to guess among each other what color I was going have on for the next class. So even seeing how excited they were from our covering…
So I want to celebrate and promote anybody that’s doing the same thing on any level. That’s why I reached out to talk to you.
It’s a testament to the life-giving Teachings that we have of The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad through The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan, and it dismantles the accusation that what we teach and represent is hate or racism.
I’m saying all that to say, the impact that we make, we may not be aware of it… You’re making an impact to me. I know other sisters see it too. Also women who are not in the Nation of Islam that may not be reaching out… they are watching you and us.
The compliments that I’ve received about you, in just conversations, I want you to know about that.
Saffiyah Muhammad (ASM)
Thank you so much. That means a lot. It’s hard for me to accept compliments.
But I really do appreciate that, and it’s just confirming to me that you never know who’s watching and how many people you are affecting.
So all praise belongs to Him (Allah).
Ebony S. Muhammad
Yes ma’am, indeed! All praise is due to Allah!
